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[Sep. 5th, 2012|11:11 pm]
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Is this entirely insensitive? Someone posts that crying kids on planes trigger their anxiety disorder. The response I didn't give is "I am sorry, and I try to manage my kid as best as I can on a plane, but it's not my job to manage your disorder." I mean, I get it and I sympathize, I do... but... how is "well, your kid might affect my mental health, so I don't think you should bring them on a plane" not entitled? My OCD is affected by having to use my co-worker's grody keyboards. So, I keep a keyboard-cleaning kit handy because I don't feel like I have the right to tell them I don't think they ought to type while eating a bear claw. (Even if in my head I think that they shouldn't.)
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[User Picture]From: mzkero
2012-09-06 04:00 am (UTC)

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I'm with you! I am sick of people who don't have kids condemning kids. If it weren't for children, they themselves would not exist. I'd love for them to try being a parent for a week or two...

I'm tired and should not read these things at this hour. It makes me rant and rave.
[User Picture]From: jjaynes
2012-09-06 04:22 am (UTC)

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I'm attempting to take mkzero's reply here with a grain of salt, as you yourself say it's late and you're a bit ranty, but... I don't see how "you were a kid once too" is a valid argument. I was also once an entitled, snotty 18 year old know-it-all, and I freaking hate those now.

Also, as a childfree person, I am entirely aware that I would never survive a week of parenting. That's why I don't have kids!
[User Picture]From: richenza
2012-09-06 01:28 pm (UTC)

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I don't see how "you were a kid once too" is a valid argument. I was also once an entitled, snotty 18 year old know-it-all, and I freaking hate those now.

I think her point is that it is a transient state, and tolerance is different than acceptance. So, for example I don't expect you to accept being hit by Little Dude, for example, but I would expect you not to write him off as a person for age-appropriate, socially unacceptable behavior.

It gets a bit frustrating sometimes that people assume your child is all the time the way he/she acts right this second. I would say that I got about an even number of gushing compliments for exceptional behavior and dirty looks as I dragged my screaming child back to camp this Pennsic. I try not to take either one too much to heart, as I know that the next phase of the moon is just around the corner.
[User Picture]From: calygrey
2012-09-06 04:49 pm (UTC)

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I've learned to never judge a parent's ability/style based on their toddlers' behavior. Everyone's toddlers are miserable creatures most of the time. (I thought you were an awesome mom for dragging Lil' Dude away when he was screaming.)

The airplane thing...no one is suffering more than the parents. I'm always nice to them. Who cares if the kid is screaming; ducklings will not die. If the parents could possibly shut the kid up, don't we all think they WOULD? We take care of everyone else's disabilities; why can't we do the same for babies.
[User Picture]From: jjaynes
2012-09-06 05:05 pm (UTC)

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The all the time fallacy is, in fact, something that I used to do. I totally think it'd be good if more people realized that kids have ups and downs, thathas totally helped me to judge parents less. I can now assum that the shrieking terror in the supermarket is having a bad hour, rather than that her parents are terrible. I think it helps everyone to know that kids have good and bad times.

Pls excuse typing, my phone won't let me go back to add missed spaces :(
[User Picture]From: zuleikhajami
2012-09-06 05:18 am (UTC)

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How does a crying child trigger an anxiety disorder? That seems like a weird issue.

I don't think it's insensitive to rant on lj. Depending on context, it may be insensitive to say something in person.

I agree with you, though (of course, I'm a parent). I think it's reasonable to expect to go to an R-rated movie or a fine dining restaurant and not face a crying child. I don't think it's reasonable to expect to not hear a crying child at a diner or to take an airplane and not face a crying child. Babies and kids sometimes need to be taken on plane flights, and sometimes they cry.
[User Picture]From: jjaynes
2012-09-06 07:02 pm (UTC)

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Really? It seems pretty reasonable to me that a loud, urgent, somewhat upsetting noise that indicates distress on the part of another human being could easily be an anxiety trigger.
[User Picture]From: dianec42
2012-09-06 06:16 am (UTC)

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I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

I can't tell if this screams "entitlement" or just "this person is so messed up he/she/it should never leave the house." Either way, it's not your job (as a total stranger) to fix their problem. You and your kid have just as much right to be there as they do.
From: wispfox
2012-09-06 02:37 pm (UTC)

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Personally, I'd think the anxiety prone person could wear earplugs. They aren't prefect, but they do an excellent job of muting noise on airplanes, and are usually cheaper than noise-canceling headphones.

Anyway.
[User Picture]From: safiya_shirazi
2012-09-06 02:38 pm (UTC)

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Okay, so there are lots and LOTS of places I kind of feel that kids shouldn't go, and other places that I feel SOME kids shouldn't go. For example, I know Eloise (from BBM's) daughter Charlotte is just fine in an event kitchen. Sophia is not, and so I do not take Sophia into an event kitchen because it is setting her up for SPECTACULAR failure and safety issues. And I know that you and I don't agree on some things when it comes to where kids go. Sometimes kids have to go to places that require air transport and I get that, but I'm never going to feel they're welcome.

That's my thing. That's me saying, "I don't like kids, I sure don't like them in small confined spaces where I can't get away from them. Especially when their parents don't believe in the word "no."" My thing puts no obligations on you. The very idea that YOU are responsible for managing SOMEONE ELSE'S anxiety disorder is just as absurd and offensive as the idea that I am responsible for re-arranging my private space and my own life because someone else won't restrain their child. It is the epitome of entitlement. It is morally wrong.

I have a migraine disorder. There is always a risk for migraine, but certain factors act as triggers and make migraine much more likely. Would this person seriously suggest that I demand a store owner turn down his lighting to accommodate my migraine disorder? The onus is on ME to avoid my triggers, or to mitigate them myself - not on anyone else to change their lives or their practices to accommodate my problems.
[User Picture]From: corwyn_ap
2012-09-06 03:00 pm (UTC)

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I am going to sound like an engineer here, but I don't see why business class (if appropriately named) shouldn't be kid-free. Doesn't that solve everyone's issues? People with kids can travel couch (or first) class. People who need, for medical reasons, to be away from kids, can travel business. Airlines can offset the cost of a soundproof door, by charging more for business class "Now free of screaming kids!"
[User Picture]From: richenza
2012-09-06 03:17 pm (UTC)

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Yeah, I also see a lot of people suggest "family zones". Business class basically already is kid-free, simply due to cost. Family zones sound like a terrible idea to me. My kid is generally very good on a plane, but all it takes is one kid acting out to poison every nearby kid with the same bad behavior. I'd rather see families spaced out as much as possible, unless it is two families traveling together.
[User Picture]From: richenza
2012-09-12 02:25 pm (UTC)

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I'm also not a huge fan of making up rules that prevent people from using good judgment. Maybe the parent has an excellent reason why their kid needs to travel in first class - say, they are celebrities and will get hassled, or the kid has a medical issue which requires more space than coach, or even just that they know their child well enough to have excellent reason to believe that a formal space will elicit formal behavior.

I strongly agree with Jess, that success for a child involves a parent knowing a child's strengths and limitations and playing to that. It bugs me when people want to make up more and more rules to restrict available choices to prevent a few douchebags from being douchebags. Protip - that is a game you can never win. Douchebaggery is wily like that.